You couldnt be more correct. I have had that same dilemma. Cheaper and easier to pay for someone elses negligence than to tarnish a piece of MY QUALITY INVENTORY. Carfax is complete Bulls*!t. Its almost like having to explain to a customer that a car is salvage because of a triangle. If they want to report on vehicle history, they need greater detail and the FACTS (not the fax)!! Totally wrong that a "website" can label a car as having aids & send it to a leper colony. It's also equally wrong that some tacky piece of sh*t covered in paintwork & overspray that I wouldnt have dreamed of selling 8 years ago winds up on my lot because that same "website" says its "CLEAN". Sad to say that until the current state of affairs changes, we will all continue to pay the monthly extortion money for unlimited "FAX" (not FACTS).

Be careful, Manheim is now reporting to Carfax! I bought a 18.000 mile A6 with rocker damage sold uniboby, with a clean Carfax, cost to repair was 900bucks. A week later Carfax showed STRUCTURAL DAMAGE reported by auction MINUS $6,000.00 on Carfax. This perfect car is now unsellable. This is not right for manheim eather, we buy cars based on there discription and they then stab us in the back by giving out what is supposed to be secure information that should never leave there gates, part of the fees I pay sre for security. Manheim is in bed with Carfax! If you have same problem contact me @ mfanto@aol.com. RECHECK your unibody Carfaxes.

Thanks Mike. If you heard the stories that pass through our office, you'd quit cars and out a Rita's water ice. I have one from today that goes back six years on a $70,000 Porsche. These Car Falses can go sideways at any moment and our assets are chopped in half while the middle men look the other way as if there's no sweat. There has to be an end to this or it won't work out.

Rob- you're a straight shooter & I think I speak for all of us when I say thanks for the business you bring each week & for your business approach that helps us put food on the table. If more sellers were like you you wouldn't be the only lane selling over 90% & the auction would sell more than 26% of all cars on any given sale day.

Your words on carfax are spot on. Its a double-edged sword though. It devalues good cars all to often & hits us hard in the pockets if we're not careful. On the flip side though, you know as well as I do that we all use it to our advantage whenever we can to make us money. When you and your buyers buy off private sellers, dealerships, & all your other resources & when I and all us dealers take trade-ins & buy off private sellers, you KNOW the first thing we all do, often before even inspecting the car, is run that miserable carfax. It hurts us all too often if we're not careful, but on the other hand when we see these bad carfaxes you KNOW we steal t

we steal their cars at a price we can make $$ on even with the bad info reported.

MISinformation effects all of us & how so much of this carfax bs is nothing more just that. MISinformation. All the good cars that have been bumped causing no damage but now have "rear impact with another vehicle" get de-valued & even worse, these reports show no difference in whats reported from this & a car that was actually smashed. No matter how many cars I see, it still drives me wild to see how many cars that roll into the auction block & our lots with a "clean" carfax but look like theyve been smashed from every angle, put back together with crazy glue, painted in someone's backyard in Mexico with a spray can, but pull good $$ because nothing was reported & when repaired correctly some idiot who uses Carfax as the holy grail will see a "clean" carfax & pay top dollar for that piece of sh*t. Its sickening.

Keep up the good work Rob... Its much appreciated

Hi Everyone,

Carfax is a messed up thing, but there is a market for cars with Bad Carfax. (Atleast one positive thing about it). I buy cars with messed up Carfax, but gotta steal it at right price, which I do in Bob's lane every Friday. Bob will sell you anything you want to buy. That's what we all love about him, he might make $$$ but the guy he sells it to, will make a good profit if he pays attention. My approach to a retail customer that's looking at a car with bad carfax is: I tell the customer that we will take the car to a new car store and have it fully inspected by them to see what was hit and replaced, another thing I do is: as long as they own the vehicle if any paint defects come up like pealing clear coat or paint falling off, I will guarantee the repairs. So far out of 1000 cars sold in the last 2 years, I had to do it once and that was repaint 3 panels. It may seem stupid, but it gives little bit more confidence for the consumer and they pull the trigger. I think Bob sh

I think Bob should write up a little article about how to sell cars with a bad carfax if you have any on the lot and how to approach a customer about it. Most cars with bad carfax are great cars, sometimes you'll get some BS, but do your homework before buying.

Bob, if you can give out some advice about: How to sell cars with a bad carfax and approach a customer that wants to buy a car that has a bad carfax, that would be great. I will see via Simulcast tomorrow. Have fun. Sell them all!!!

Ok, so we pretty much established that we all hate Carfax for whatever reason...(or at least I do)
1. For potentially misleading info
2. For killing the value on an otherwise potentially great car
3. For making all dealers look like clowns
4. For charging too much for their product
5. For brain washing customers into thinking the Carfax is more important than the actual history of the car...

For me, more than anything, I could deal with them if they weren't strong arming me into paying their rediculous price for potentially misleading information. How are you supposed to deal with this problem/scenario?
I think in this case, as well as all others, Knowledge is Power... At least from a negotiating standpoint.

I understand their whole objective - make money and charge as much as you can get away with charging...
Ive noticed a trend in business advertising lately - in order for companies to change the public perception - it might be one of the worst companies regarding customer support, but they pay a lot of money to advertize that they have the best customer support; or they could be the highest priced product, but they advertize like crazy that they are the Lowest Price and they can save you money... Most people are too lazy to do their homework and they bank on that!

In this particular case, Carfaxes pricing is what makes me more aggravated than anything.
I was paying $779 for unlimited carfax with roughly 30-50 cars, other dealers are paying $399 for unlimited carfax with around the same inventory. According to them, their prices are set across the board.

Of course if you bring this up to them, you're a sack of Sh*t lair because you're getting a great deal and other people ar

CONTINUED: people are paying more (which is true - a friend in Charlotte, NC is paying $1100 for the same product). But my concern is, why would you have to pay so much for an incomplete product? Don't act like your product is "The Sh*t" because the people that pay your bills are also the ones that hate you, not to mention the fact that They Know The Truth!

So everything is out on the table. We have established the problem and keep beating ourselves up about it, but what do you actually DO about it? I know what I did - My contract came up for renewal and I told them the same thing I always tell them - the same thing they keep ignoring everytime I tell them - Dealers aren't happy with your advertising, they're not happy with your price, they're not happy with your information, and they're definitely not happy about how you think you can determine how much more or less a car is worth especially considering there is nothing substantial to help you determine that value.

So I cancelled. I guess its time to stop talking about it and start doing it. I think that goes for every other dealer - You can keep threatening them with cancelling but if they got you by the balls and you don't do anything about it, they're just going to squeeze harder and harder. My carfax started at around $500/mo ballpark a month and I had enough of their crap at around $800/mo.

Everyone hates them but you don't want to be the only one getting rid of them. All we need is a medium... a way to unite all the dealers against a common cause...

Stop being the skinny wimp that talks crap and can't back it up. They will call you out and they'll know right away that you're a wimp; they can charge you double what you're paying now, and you'll still bend over and take it, because you've already proved to them that they can...

Bob, I'm a bit late on the post, but you are right on for this subject. I won’t make this too long. CFax needs to have someone in place that might know a little about the Car Business and make the call what goes on the report and what doesn’t. Maybe a $$ amount when reached should be listed...like any repairs that are estimated over $5,000 should be and the ones (as you described) that are under a said amount are not. But that may require CFax to go to another level. Wonder what would happen if 50% of franchise Dealers would cancel their account and a sales rep would call and ask why....maybe CFax would listen to their customers??
This may be forwarded to "feedback" on the CFax website. Is there one?

good to hear from you Barry. Thanks for you contribution.

Bob, You wrote in past articles you had a bomb to drop on the Carfax machine. Still waiting on pins and needles ....

While were waiting, careful dumping on the cops. There are plenty more cases where the idiot driving the S63-AMG gets a ding from driver number two, calls the cops, and Demands a police report over many objections from the cop, who, believe me, doesn't want to write the crash report to begin with. I feel nothing for the idiot owner of the high end car who suffers diminished value on the trade in, but I feel the pain for the wholesaler who ends up with it, especially when it is purchased without looking at the VIN history, we all know we have done this.

And did, someone just write adverse info about Manheim ? Carefule, Manheim will buy Bob's web domain and delete it.

Frank,

You are right as the owner is not aware of the fact that that report will crush his butt and won't know it until two years from now when he is trying to trade that hamburger. It's not the Cops fault. And as for Manheim, I am their largest and most loyal customer in the country. I can't control what guys say and I think it is good for them to know how dealers feel. Hiding the sun with your thumb helps nobody.